Paul sat down with John Mahoney just as the grass was starting to overgrow

his lawn this spring. John has won many awards as a math teacher, most

recently from the Agnes Meyer Foundation. They talked mostly about his

first year teaching at Banneker High School, a magnet school in the

District of Columbia public school system. John taught at the Sidwell

Friends School for twenty-four years.

Paul: When Banneker started twenty years ago, was it supposed to be a

magnet school for math and science kids?

John: It got that reputation, but it was supposed to be a magnet academic

school, 100% go to college, no vocational component.

Paul: But it was also supposed to be attractive to black kids, to fill a

hole. One of the by-products of Brown vs. Board of Education was there was

no longer a magnet school for black kids who really wanted to succeed, and

it all got sort of Balkanized. Every school became mediocre.

John: There were three schools established: Ellington for the Arts, the

School Without Walls, primarily based on internships, and Banneker. There

are still faculty at Banneker who have been there from the

beginning. There are several award-winning teachers, an incredibly strong

faculty. There was an It's Academic Team from D.C. including Banneker and

Georgetown Day School kids in a nationwide Panasonic competition coached by

the Banneker coach, and they won the nationwide competition last

summer. There are a lot of families saving $20,000/year by sending their

kids to Banneker.

Paul: I'm curious about how the racial make-up perpetuates itself. Would

white kids want to go to Banneker? Would they be intimidated?

John: There are about a dozen white kids, and I don't see intimidation or

a sense of discomfort. Parents seem to be comfortable. We don't have that

many Hispanic kids, many of whom tend to go to Bell Multicultural in

Columbia Heights . . . . I think it is harder for a kid to be the only black kid in a classroom than the other way around. At Banneker everyone is comfortable. The sense of comfort in the classroom is unbelievable. No one feels stupid asking a question in class. Everybody is playing the same game.

Paul: It must be hard for first-generation immigrants to send their kids

to Banneker.

John: Often it is the junior high teacher who pushes it. I had one kid

who came for the interview with her teacher who said this was one of the

best kids she had ever taught, and this is where the kid should go . . . .

Before coming to DC public schools I had had all these opinions that

have now been shattered. There was an article in the Post quoting a

Sidwell colleague of mine who thought my job would be like teaching in

Kosovo where I would be in physical danger or not be able to teach. I have

friends in most of the high schools, and it isn't easy in some places, but

it's not that bad in other places.

Paul: Dan Rubenstein's situation [as head of the mathematics department at

the S.E.E.D. Public Charter School] was different in that they are

privately supported and have a huge building still going up.

John: Charter schools have to admit everybody; they cannot select.

Paul: Don't some school have missions?

John: Yes, the Thurgood Marshall School is trying to incorporate "street

law" in its curriculum to empower its students. Others also have missions.

Paul: They end up in office buildings like at the Waterside Mall near the old EPA

site.

John: We have the same budget but we already have the building. It's

Rough. I don't have any money for overhead light bulbs. Teachers are

always buying stuff, like cartridges for printers. . . .

[Comparing Sidwell with Banneker]

John: Some families get a lot of financial aid in private schools, but

even those who get a lot of aid often have to pay a lot. One kid who got

into both Sidwell and Banneker is going to Banneker

Paul: I'm getting more of a sense of the consumer mentality from private

school families. I don't know whether you got that sense the last couple

of years at Sidwell with people complaining about private school

tuition. Whenever I hear a complaint it's usually in the same sentence

about money.

John: College tuition bills are essentially the same as private high

school ones these days. High school teachers and college teachers are paid

about the same.

Paul: It’s unbelievable what they are doing at colleges, having adjunct

professor and grad students doing all the work, getting paid next to nothing.

John: I'm worried about the financial viability of some of the private

schools in our region.

Paul: There will be a dip in enrollment after the baby boomlet goes past. . . . You taught, at Sidwell, some kids identified who were weaker in

math, and they gave you a lot of freedom in your instructional methods, and

you would teach that and then go into a BC class. Is there a range of abilities among the Banneker students? My impression is many of the students might have a spotty K-8 education more so than if they had been in a stronger system.

John: We get a lot of kids from Jefferson, which is a very good junior

high. A lot of kids have had algebra and geometry in one year, and we give

them a placement test when they get to Banneker. But I haven't found their

background to be weak. I'm teaching geometry for ninth and tenth

graders. There is a fairly big range in that class; whoever taught them

the previous year did an adequate job. There are more kids at that level

than there were at Sidwell. It's a non-proof based, an SAT type of

geometry course, but they're not having conceptual difficulties.

Paul: Does Banneker have geographic boundaries, or do you qualify purely

by taking a placement test?

John: Anyone can go there, but you need to be in the top 18% of your

class, and you need teacher recommendations, and do an interview, and write

an essay. There is no admissions test, but we get copies of the

standardized test scores that everyone takes in the District. We draw from

families mostly from east of the park, and a lot of kids live in the

Georgia Avenue corridor.

Paul: Did you spend a lot of time after school doing a math or computer

club?

John: There was a big robotics competition, called FIRST, that I've been

involved in.

Paul: Is it for DC schools or public schools in general?

John: Any school can participate, and 780 in the country participated this

year, as far as I can tell. It was an intensive six and a half week

process, from when we got the kit and learned the purpose of this year's

competition to when we have to ship the robot.

Paul: So you get the package and instructions . . .

John: No instructions--

Paul: No instructions? So you just get the package and look at it and try

to make something out of it?

John: Yes.

Paul: Did you have to play a role in it? Are you supposed to not talk to them?

John: Just the opposite.

Paul: How do the judges know that you didn't do it all?

John: It was not a problem . . . . The innards came in two recycling

sized boxes; we had a dozen motors, a gyroscope, lots of gears, parts I had

no idea what do with, a pneumatic system, and what people do--and it was a

miracle--is you find local engineers to help you, so we quickly got hooked

up with the National Society of Black Engineers, and with engineers at

Howard University which is across Georgia Ave. from Banneker, so we got

hooked up with them, and so many things went our way. The key engineer was

from the patent office, and they would show up at 4:30 in the afternoon,

and they would help us try to figure things out. The robot could not weigh

more than 130 pounds; our dimensions were 30"x36"x14" and our weight was

105 pounds. We had two dozen kids who were interested in various

levels. The tools came from my garage. A kid could not carry a utility

knife in the hall; a kid could get suspended for six weeks.

Paul: Were you allowed to carry the tools around?

John: Yes, I could bring them, we did this in an empty classroom which we

converted into a robot classroom, and I taught them how to use the tools,

and it was neat. . . . We had a deadline and we had a kid's uncle who worked for NOAA and he dealt with controls and mastered the electronics, this was before we knew what we wanted to control. We had a design for a tank-type drive

system and arms but we weren't sure we could build it all.

Paul: How did you decide? Was there a lot of disagreement? Were you sort

of a moderator?

John: I was more of a moderator. A lot of kids wanted to have a tractor

drive system. Traction was a big issue, and it was really intense.

Paul: Was there a science or physics teacher who got involved at the school?

John: My other colleague is a math teacher who also does AP physics. He

designed the wheel assembly, he designed the drive system. I had no

problem with the tank drive system but we had to have the wheels

working. Once we had the wheels working then we could spend another week

doing the tank system. Well, the wheels didn't work until the Friday

before the Tuesday shipping date, so that is what we stayed with.

Paul: Were you allowed to bring in your own parts?

John: There was a list of approved parts and approved suppliers and there

were limitations on aluminum and steel, and wheels were to be bought from a

certain manufacturer. The wheels that came were standard wheelchair

wheels, but we bought nine-inch wheels (for a motorized wheel chair) from

the same manufacturer, and they worked great. We were the fastest robot in

the competition. We were going at 12 feet/sec at full speed. We brought

fourteen kids to the regional competition at Virginia Commonwealth

University. There were 65 teams. We didn't score a lot of points, but we

won the Rookie All Star award for the sixteen first-year teams, and it was

because those kids knew the machine backward and forwards.

Paul: That's good, because with all the adults you wonder whether the kids

have enough input.

John: They had to build it. They could explain everything, we also had a

lot of girls on our team, they were very conversant, and they helped other

teams.

Paul: It must have been extremely gratifying.

John: It was. It was exhausting but extremely gratifying. . . . Everyone

had the same goals, and there were incredibly creative machines.

Paul: You saw some machines that you could not have conceived of from the

original parts that you received.

John: The kits did not have any body parts, but basically every idea we

rejected as not realistic someone else had, like pneumatic devices. The

former dean of engineering at Howard was always in our room, and he was

into pneumatics, and he was working on it at the last minute, but we had to

ship it. . . . I was in charge of the crate, and it was in the hall.

Paul: So it was standing in the hallway of the school.

John: It was neat, we demonstrated it at assembly, and the DC Council is

going to give us a proclamation next month.

Paul: It sounds like you really had a dedicated group of kids there. My

friend Bobbie Neuman says the most rewarding tutoring she does is the work

she does at the public schools. She would like to do that all the time. I

am trying to start a non-profit organization. I have built up about 200

contacts, people who have provided educational services, like tutoring,

diagnostic testing, optometry, occupational therapy, people who provide

services to kids who can afford it. My idea is to connect those people

with the kids in inner city who cannot afford it.

John: That would be great.

Paul: You may not have a huge constituency at Banneker, but there is great

need. The kids think they're stupid, but a little professional help could

make a big difference. Very few poor kids are documented as learning

disabled in the DC public school system.

John: Actually it's quite the opposite. There are two law firms in

town who specialize in this. Kids petition to be sent to a private

school and the budget for this is excessive.

Paul: Which is why there is such a huge per pupil cost in the District, to

pay for the private school kids.

John: It's been very expensive for the District. . . . Thinking about your

nonprofit we certainly have a lot of kids who could get support filling out

applications for scholarships, seniors who have gotten into college but are

looking around for scholarships. There are three guidance counselors, but

it would be great to have other people to help. They're great kids. It

strikes me every day how nice the kids are to each other and to me. I had

never been in a D.C. public school before, and it's just amazing. The

halls are quiet, the kids are polite. . . .

Paul: I've been to a couple of schools where there is no selection

process, and they do seem like prison fortresses. A few summers ago I had

a kid sponsored for an algebra class, and I went over to talk to the

guidance counselor about him, and I can't remember which school it was, I

think Coolidge. There was barbed wire, one little opening, and in the main

office a lot of people milling around. You couldn't tell who was supposed

to be working. The assistant principal wasn't there and wouldn't return

phone calls; it was a total mess. I guess the kids you have are lucky

they're getting a good education. Are there just two of you in the math

department?

John: There are four of us. We each teach about 100 kids, there are 400

altogether. My colleagues in the other departments are terrific. They're

very committed. It's been an incredible eye-opening experience.

Paul: You didn't know you were going to teach At Banneker when you decided

to do this. Were you assigned to Banneker?

John: I fought hard to get into Banneker. It had always been my first

choice, but it wasn't until August that I had it in writing, and so I had

been interviewed in April, but the bureaucracy was such that they couldn't

offer me the position.

Paul: Was being white a factor in your hiring in either direction. Is

there any racial consciousness in the hiring practices? Do they want at

least one white person in each department, or they do care?

John: I never heard anything about that.

Paul: I hadn't either.

John: Last spring I had won the award from the Washington Post [from the

Agnes Meyer Foundation], and the Wilson principal called me a number of

times. Wilson was my second choice.

Paul: You had already publicized your decision to [teach in the D.C. public school system].

John: Wilson has 1700-1800 students. What I like about Banneker is I can

recognize all the kids, and the halls aren't jammed.

Paul: It's got a private school feel, and you know all your colleagues now.

John: It is just reasonable in size that I feel like I'm part of a

community, it's emphasized throughout the day. The kids feel very safe.

Paul: Did they inherit an old building?

John: Yes, they inherited the old Banneker Junior High, a beautiful

building built in 1936, extraordinarily well-designed, really solid, huge

rooms, probably six stairwells, two are unused.

Paul: They have room for more students?

John: Kids who are qualified get in.

Paul: They don't turn away anyone because of the size.

John: Everyone is part of admissions, there is no separate committee, and

kids are extremely motivated and serious, and it's a special place. Kids

are getting into all the Ivy League schools. A lot of our kids go on to the better African-American colleges, then graduate schools. Some go to Morehouse, some go to Howard, some to Temple where I did my graduate work. The top kids are just like the top kids at Sidwell. . . .

I had a big pay cut this year, because they pay me a tenth year teacher salary, which is the maximum for someone transferring in, plus I have credit for my Master's. Charter schools can pay on a different scale. I could always go back to Sidwell or any school. I quickly realized once I got to Banneker that this is where I want to be, and I'll be there for a long time.

Paul: Till you're eighty!

John: Exactly.